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Was Christ baptized by fire?

posted Feb 25, 2017 00:05:07 by David.Clark
In my studies today, I ran into the following verse...
Mormon 7:10 - And ye will also know that ye are a remnant of the seed of Jacob; therefore ye are numbered among the people of the first covenant; and if it so be that ye believe in Christ, and are baptized, first with water, then with fire and with the Holy Ghost, following the example of our Savior, according to that which he hath commanded us, it shall be well with you in the day of judgment. Amen.

With our recent focus on the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost, this verse caught my eye because it seems to be saying that Jesus was baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost.

I know the scriptures tell us that the Holy Ghost descended like a dove, but putting all this together, it adds more to those verses to me if that was Jesus being baptized by fire as we're instructed to seek as well.
Formerly known as Alabama LDS

drc53@ymail.com
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33 replies
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Jesse Slater said Feb 25, 2017 01:28:26
I listened to the podcast by Mike Stroud and loved it. Can anyone solidify the evidence in scripture that the act of confirmation is NOT baptism by fire?
I forgot if Mike goes over it in detail with scriptural references in his podcast...
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Bob Walker said Feb 25, 2017 02:07:49
“You might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, if not done in view of the remission of sins and getting of the Holy Ghost. Baptism by water is but half a baptism, and is good for nothing without the other half—that is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost.” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith (1976), 314.
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Bob Walker said Feb 25, 2017 02:11:53
2 Nephi 31 (emphasis mine)

13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
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Bob Walker said Feb 25, 2017 02:15:55
3 Nephi 12

1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.

2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.
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Bob Walker said Feb 25, 2017 02:19:07
The Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost is not part of the initial Baptism and Confirmation ordinance. How many 8-year-old children do you know who are capable of this depth of understanding of the workings of the Spirit? Baptism is the first step along a lengthy path that leads to the Baptism of Fire. One does not get to this second baptism in hours or days and it is often a lifetime pursuit (although each person can set the pace depending on how much they are determined to follow the Savior).

Sorry David for the topic drift, but I wanted to help answer Jesse's question.
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David.Clark said Feb 25, 2017 03:28:13
No problem, Bob! Thank you for the great scripture verses.
Formerly known as Alabama LDS

drc53@ymail.com
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David.Clark said Feb 25, 2017 03:31:21
While it should have been obvious before, the thought of knowing how Christ's baptism by fire happened just adds to the significance of the Holy Ghost descending as a dove in the scriptures really is...
Formerly known as Alabama LDS

drc53@ymail.com
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Jesse Slater said Feb 26, 2017 00:08:22
Thank you Bob.
However, with those verses that you shared, one could come to either conclusion - that either one gets the baptism by fire immediately following the water baptism, and that this is done by receiving the Holy Ghost.... or that indeed there is another event that takes place. Fore example, when the scripture you shared says,

"by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost..."

The word "yea" is something that I've noticed in reading the scriptures to be sort of a way of repeating a message, or concept.

Like this: God is no respecter of persons, yea, he esteems all men equally
For behold, Christ shall truly come, yea, he shall descend...
And then shall there be darkness, yea, then shall the sun be darkened.
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CindyLigouri said Feb 26, 2017 00:32:50
I guess I'm drifting a bit, but your post brought this to mind. I was baptized as an adult in 1993 after learning about and being fully active in the church since 1981. I was confirmed immediately afterwards. When the confirmation happened, I was expecting something, anything - to feel different or just to be aware that something had happened. It did not. I was a little disappointed but just set it aside. When I listened to Mike's podcasts on the Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost this year, it finally clicked.

Around 2012 I was being compelled to begin trying to understand how to receive revelation. It has been a 5 year journey to come to a better understand of how to "receive the Holy Ghost". Prior to my baptism I received promptings and even some fairly miraculous events. Ie, at least 3 years prior to my even seriously looking into, or for that matter knowing much about the church, I received a priesthood blessing by someone on the other side of the veil in answer to a prayer begging for Heavenly Father's help to quitting smoking. I had been seriously searching and learning about the Christian for many years however. These events were not too much different than what I experienced in my early days as a baptized member of the church.

Matthew B Brown in his book "Receiving the Gifts of the Spirit" states, "Latter-day Saints have not only the opportunity, but also the divinely mandated obligation to discover and develop their spiritual gifts. Only in doing so can they reach their full religious potential. George Q Cannon said that 'if men and women become members of the Church and receive the Holy Ghost their work does not end there; it has hardly begun.' He further stated that if the Saints 'do not cultivate the Holy Spirit, it will not increase in them; neither will the gifts and blessings of the gospel increase within them.' On another occasion he explained that 'we cannot be the people that God designs we should be, until we seek after and obtain these spiritual gifts . . . (I)t should be the constant prayer of all the Latter-day Saints for the Lord to give us those gifts that are suited to our condition, and that will make us perfect, because the bestowal of these gifts is for the express purpose of making those who are entitled to them perfect before the Lord'" (Matthew B. Brown, "Receiving the Gifts of the Spirit", Introduction).

For me, what is being talked about here is pretty much the definition of "Receive the Holy Ghost" and is the process to the higher attainment of the Gifts, ultimately leading the seeing the face of the Father and the Son. It is not a passive process.

[Last edited Feb 26, 2017 01:26:16]
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NormJohnson said Feb 26, 2017 01:26:17
What is baptism by fire? If it is the receipt of the HG following baptism and confirmation that may be one thing. On the other hand if it is what occurs with receipt of the 2nd comforter that is another. Surely we would not expect the Savior to come and comfort himself. That is akin to the worlds teaching of the trinity.
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CindyLigouri said Feb 26, 2017 01:38:11
@ Norm, I would suggest you listen to Mike Stroud's 3 podcasts abut the Baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost. He does an excellent job of explaining it. One of them is even a missionary training he did while he was on his mission in the NJ Mission. One of the points he makes is that it is an actual baptism in which the person needs to be immersed in Heavenly fire, to ultimately complete the baptismal ordinance. I believe he is correct. I have had a witness of the same.

Also could you clarify what you mean by "Surely we would not expect the Savior to come and comfort himself"? I don't understand. To my understanding the Second Comforter, even by the definition of our Bible Dictionary, is a meeting, face to face, with the Savior.
[Last edited Feb 26, 2017 03:30:11]
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David.Clark said Feb 26, 2017 03:03:36
The baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost is not the Second Comforter. It's the receipt of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion (at its core). Excellent point to clarify!!
Formerly known as Alabama LDS

drc53@ymail.com
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PaulaTaylor said Feb 27, 2017 14:26:42
One thing I learned this week is that at confirmation we are commanded to recieve the Holy Ghost. "I say unto you, recieve the Holy Ghost." It's an action and command that WE have to complete. We have the gift , now we just have to use it.
Cutiefruity at rocketmail dot com
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RyanAllen said Feb 27, 2017 20:03:52
We can look to our earth for an example here. She was immersed with water as a baptism and will yet be immersed with fire as a second baptism. I believe what Mike Stroud has taught about the baptism of fire being an immersion in spiritual fire with angels present. I had a profound experience a few years ago. When I learned about this doctrine through the podcasts, I wondered if that experience could have been my baptism of fire, though I did not see fire or angels. However, as I have recently re-read my journal entry about the experience, I described feeling completely enveloped by the Spirit from head to toe and sensing that angels were present. I believe it was in the "Tip of the Spear" podcast that Mike related that a man who has had his 2nd Comforter experience prayed about why there had not been fire or angels present when he had experienced his baptism of fire. He was answered that fire and angels were present, he just didn't see them. I feel that my experience mirrors this man's, but like some of the Lamanites, I "knew it not".
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ElishaJones said Feb 27, 2017 22:58:50
I am confused.

President Packer says this, "When parents are teaching their children and when missionaries are teaching investigators, preparing them for baptism by water, they must also think of the gift of the Holy Ghost—baptism by fire. Think of it as one sentence. First comes the baptism of water and then the baptism of fire."

Joseph Smith says:
“The baptism of water, without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost attending it, is of no use; they are necessarily and inseparably connected” (History of the Church, 6:316).

It sounds like the baptism of fire comes right after baptism with our confirmation. But it doesn't take much to confuse me.
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